Exclusive interview: Martin Mars water bomber owner explains why their fleet isn't fighting B.C. wildfires

Earlier on Monday, we published an article about the availability of the Martin Mars water bomber and other members of the Coulson Aviation fleet that are used to fight wildfires.

Wayne Coulson, who is the President and CEO of Coulson Aviation, spoke with us on Monday to go more in depth about why his fleet isn't aiding the efforts against the B.C. wildfires, but instead fighting wildfires in the U.S.

He also addresses the concerns that have been risen over the effectiveness and cost of the 70-year-old water bomber and what else his fleet offers, which includes night vision capabilities.

KelownaNow: So you haven't heard anything back from the government despite offering your services, why do you think that is? Is there anything that sticks out to you that might be the reason? Costs?

Wayne Coulson: I don't think it's cost because typically when there's firefighting to be done, large helicopters are a lot cheaper than small helicopters on a cost-per-litre delivered gallon. I don't think it's that, and so I'm not sure, I think you would have to ask the province. They've got our equipment and our lists and I just haven't heard anything yet.

KN: When did you first reach out to them? Just based on this kind of disaster... was it Friday? Was it earlier?

WC: They phoned us Saturday asking us if we could provide them with a list of equipment we have available, which we provided them, and said we would hear back on the weekend, which we never heard back. And nothing today. Maybe they've got all the resources they require and are good to go.

KN: Obviously the bomber isn't going to be ready until early August, but can you maybe tell me a bit about the other parts of your fleet? If they were called into service right now, would they be ready to take off immediately?

WC: We offered them a host of aircraft on the weekend, on Saturday, but because we didn't hear back last night we placed the C130 in California, with CAL FIRE, and placed one of the 61's with US Forest Services, so we have one aircraft left that they could pick up, and I'm getting feedback here this afternoon that it will get picked up tonight. That one will probably go tonight, and then we have one more that is just in maintenance that has the night vision goggle capability, which is the firefighting at night.

KN: Yeah, you would think those ones would be pretty needed at this point in B.C. to keep fighting them at night.

WC: Yeah, I would, but...

KN: So you said it was in maintenance, would it be ready to go pretty quick?

WC: In like probably four or five days, but again, right now because there is no need, you know, we're working on other projects, but if there was a need, then we would take corrective action and redirect our crews to get that aircraft prepared to fly.

KN: What are the costs for these planes? Is there anything you can tell me about how much it costs to run it for one day fighting these fires? I know people are obviously always concerned about where we're spending taxpayer dollars, but would your fleet cost more than what they are using now? Or is it similar?

WC: What I can say, just because it is hard for people to compare, is that it is significantly less than what the US government pays. Just the markets right.

KN: How much more efficient is your fleet than what is being used right now? From what I've heard, you guys can drop a lot more water and a lot more flame retardant on the fires. Are there any kind of numbers behind that?

WC: Well, yeah, in the world, every aircraft is very site specific, and you know, each aircraft has its own niche in the market, that's why there's multiple different types of aircrafts. Big ones, little ones, helicopters, airplanes. The whole concept is that the manager of those assets, which is government, it's for them to determine the best value, right? So you've got a smorgasbord of tools, and it's like, you don't use a screwdriver when you need a hammer, right? So, the Mars is just one tool in the toolbox, as are our C130s, as are our S61 firefighting helicopters. All we've done, in our world, we focus as a company on the biggest, heaviest assets for fighting fire... the game changers, if you will, in a fire, which are heavy equipment. And then there's a world market for that, and the equipment.

KN: It's easy to see with the demand to help fight wildfires down south, they're very valuable resources.

WC: They are very. The whole idea is when you get a fire, you kill it when it's absolutely as small as possible, so some governments choose to use different tools in the toolbox to attack that fire. That's probably one big question, certainly in Australia, they have a significant amount of heavy lift helicopters. We operate the biggest air tanker fleet in Australia right now, so we're a pretty good model of how different countries see the world different ways. It just comes back to who's in charge.

KN: I want to ask about that too, because obviously in your statement this morning I saw that there have been, maybe not issues with the Liberal government, but it seems like you're more hopeful that when the NDP comes into power that they will want your fleet a little more. Have you talked to John Horgan or anything? What are you guys basing that off of?

WC: We haven't, but in general, I just think that as far as government contracting goes, it will be a clearer path. Typically, what the Liberals like to do is direct work contracts to their existing suppliers without going to tender, and we felt that was unfair.

KN: It'll be interesting to see I guess on the 18th if that changes.

WC: I can see that changing. I mean why wouldn't the government want the best value for the money for the taxpayer? I mean that's been one of our frustrations, we haven't been able to bid on contracts, that have been directly awarded to the existing suppliers, and so that's why we went somewhere else to work.

KN: I won't take up too much more of your time, Wayne. Just quickly, a couple specific questions on the Mars bombers... do you guys have one or two within your fleet?

WC: We have two, but one has now been painted back to its original colours, back in 1945, and we're looking to place it with a museum in the US, where it was built.

KN So really only one is available, and it won't be until August?

WC: That's correct.

KN: And just this one because so many people seem to be bringing this up, but people say it's too big to fight fires here and too big to fight fires there, what can you say about that? How much room does it need to get down and scoop? Like Okanagan Lake, for example, can it scoop water easily out of Okanagan Lake?

WC: We need a three-mile water source, so I mean, one of the challenges we face and that airplane has faced is a lot of mistruths about the performance of it, because the Liberal government went on a campaign to get rid of it. By the time you do that, and you try and convince people of something, you know a lot of mistruths get placed in the media, and it's unfortunate because at the end of the day... people have put out a bonfire before, you can use a bucket or use a cup. People get that. What happened is they took an aircraft that drops 2,200 gallons a second for three and a half seconds and replaced it with an aircraft that drops 400 gallons a second for two seconds.

I don't think they fooled anybody, and if the aircraft was so unsafe, and they were so worried about a 70-year-old airplane, the government thinks nothing about putting people in Harbour Air everyday in those Otters to back and forth from Vancouver to Victoria. Those are the same year, so why would it be so dangerous to fly that airplane... if they were so worried they wouldn't put government employees in those Otters everyday. You just kind of look at it, and everyone puts one and one together, and they go, "well obviously there's something else going on".

You know, we've grown up here, we live here, and unfortunately this is the only part of the world that we don't fight fire in, and it's too bad. We think we have a lot of good solutions that other parts of the world have developed at their cost that we can bring home. You know what, you have to have a willing buyer and a willing seller, right?

KN: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time Wayne.